I know I preach tolerance and this might come across as extremely hypocritical, but I feel it is something that needs to be said and acknowledged, and that is I hate it when people claim that the world or a country is in decline because of a lack of Christianity –or any other religion, for that matter– and that the best way to revive a society is by having everyone follow this one “superior” religion. I know I said people shouldn’t judge, and I probably should probably take a step back and follow what I preach, but I can’t help but judge people who say those things as narrow-minded. I need to make a few points.
Irreligious people are not immoral and completely without virtue. Many of them are very decent people, perhaps kinder and more generous than some religious people.
Religion is not God’s word. Religion is human interpretation of God, and there is room for error. Thus each religion has its good points and bad points, and there is no one superior religion which everyone should follow.
Difference in religion equals diversity. The only problem is that people refuse to accept difference. If we can learn to accept others for what they are and not try to convert them to our religion and our way of worship, then there is no reason why we can’t all get along.
Faith is something which one comprehends with the heart, and not the mind. It cannot be determined by our logic because human logic is too flawed.
The truth is out there, but human beings don’t have it. Same reason as that which was stated above.
I just have to spork Ego. He’s begging for it. You’ve called me a coward twice, Ego. I’m not letting you off without mocking you to Hell and back. I’m in bold.
LOL. your rule. not my rule.. And does that make it any less true? cutting and pasting isn’t a problem only those that don’t like what is pasted contradicts what they say seems to be the biggest problem I have come across. Tut tut; excuses, excuses, Ego. You’re copying and pasting because you cannot write an argument which makes sense. But your people yeah.. they will agree with that. but there are many that see it like I do.. pasting something doesn’t mean someone is losing a debate.. Nope, pasting something means you’re plagiarizing someone’s work. so I guess you better never past anything from scientific america.. Oh, you won’t catching me pasting anything in such huge amounts. I might quote one or two phrases to support my points and put proper citations, but entire passages from the Bible? Ego, do you think you can get God to argue for you? or any statements a scientist who supports evoltuion.. Scientists, Ego, do not support ‘evoltuion’, whatever that is, but they do support evolution. better not quote them.. will you give that same treatment to your friends. I wonder. My friends would never be foolish enough to copy and paste huge chunks of text.
(Did I say that Jesus’ teachings don’t mean anything? I most certainly did not. Of course, considering Ego’s level of English language, it’s easy for him to misinterpret things.)
My reply:
Lol Is this your favourite word, by the way? Figures. It’s got three letters and two of them are repeated. Seems like it’s the only type of word you can spell correctly. this went way over your head. your comparison of Mohammads repentance to Jesus is watering down what Jesus ment by repentance.. that is my point.. comparing similiar things in different faiths. waters down the message presented in Scripture. but i’m not surprise. Hey, does anyone know where I can get a nonsense translator? I can’t seem to understand what Ego’s saying. Does comparing similar beliefs water down said beliefs?
Repentance means ‘turn away from sin and back to the laws of God’. Very simple. The laws of God are the Ten Commandments and the commandment to love one another. I don’t quote the Bible when I know the idea off the top of my head. Of course, given your very twisted understanding of Christ’s teachings, I’m sure you have a different understanding of the word ‘repentance’, don’t you, Ego?
My reply:
no that isn’t what repetance means in theology. LOL.. like I said it go’s to show you.. that your lack of theological training shows.
1) to change one’s mind, i.e. to repent Okay. Repent, Ego. Change your mind and turn to the rational side!
2) to change one’s mind for better, heartily to amend with abhorrence of one’s past sins Yes, Ego. Change your mind for the better and become rational! Well, that might be a bit too much to ask…
That’s what repentance means. When people are called to repent it’s not to follow the ten commandments it’s not a works based faith it is recognizing you are a sinner and need of a Holy God in it’s truest sense.. LOL.. and it appears you might not have done this.
You said:
You’re now speaking for the millions of Christians on earth? You really are egotistical, aren’t you?
My reply:
What a oxymoronic statement. In Debate #12, you said that Christians are shaking their head at me.. and that gives the appearance that 100’s of christians LOL.. that would be your definition of Christian which I would argue isn’t the biblical christians if you are the representation of that.. so don’t call me egotitical when you yourself said Christians are shaking their heads at me.. LOL All right, let’s do a poll and see how many people support you. You do realize that the reason why so many people are mocking the Creation Museum, atheist, Christian, Jew and Muslim alike, is because they do believe it is utterly ridiculous?
You said:
Qur’an says a lot of things. People interpret it as a Book of Symbols. For your information, even devout Muslims obeyed Mohammed’s first command to respect the people of the book. Usama ibn Munqidh thought that the Christians were a barbaric lot, but he still had Christian friends.
My reply:
Yeah.. cowards way out.. just say people interpet the Quran as a book of symbols like yourself..Um, Islamic theologians interpret it as a book of symbols. You think they’re taking the easy way out then? when someone has shown you that you are in error for saying or leading people to think that Mohammad consider Christians to be friends.. that is far from the history of Mohammads life.. LOL Do you know anything about Mohammed’s life apart from the fact that he recited the Qur’an and had many wives?
You said:
Former’ Muslim, meaning he turned against Islam and therefore would be biased against Islam.
My reply:
LOL.. the issue isn’t being bias.. it’s going to a better source of someone who knows more about the faith then yourself who lived in the country, grew up a Muslim, knows more about the context of the Quran then yourself.. no different then going to one of your bias Evolutionary scientist who are bias against supernaturalism.. LOL.. Actually, bias is always an issue. Historians teach you to be careful of sources with potential bias.
You said:
Muslims and Jews are persecuted too. Don’t think that Christians are special. As for martyrs like Eulogius, they wanted to die. One does not stand in a Muslim city, call Mohammed a devil-worshipper in public, do it multiple times after multiple warnings, and expect to live.
My reply:
Gave no examples at all.. LOL I don’t care for lip service.
Jews are persecuted by Muslims still to this day.. And Muslims are persecuted by Jews to this day. Palestine, hello? And then there are the Christians who persecute Jews, and the Christians who persecute Muslims… I can go on and on, but it just makes me depressed. anyone can follow the things going on in Jerusalem.. and Muslims.. yeah.. give an example. because people that talk negative about Islam are speaking against the Terrorism.. Terrorism is the result of said persecution. and that isn’t persecuation dear.. Oxymoronic; it’s obvious you hate me. LOL Muslims are not being persecuted like the Apostles were for following Jesus.. Of course not; the Romans had not invented electrocution yet. or modern day Christians which I gave already an example of people I know who experienced this in this century.. go read
Fox’s Book of Martyrs again.. it documents Christian persecution for following Jesus.. that is what we are talking about.. go to http://www.persecution.org/suffering/index.php that talks about modern day persecution. and in America.. LOL. prayer is taken out of schools when this nation was founded on Christian priciples.. where Bible were read in school as a text.. we don’t get the same treatment in america as other faiths do.. I live here and I know that first hand… America being the whole world, right?
You said:
And in the rest of the world, Muslims are discriminated against.
My reply:
Nothing to back this at all.. no reference to what type of discrimination.. u mentioned what the American Soldiers did.. but that is it… the rest of the world show they are being persecuted for following Mohammad. showing me Muslims dying for being Muslims.. All right, at airports, Muslims are being selected for random security checks. Their TVs are dismantled and quarantined because people think there are bombs in them. People call them names like ‘towelheads’ and draw insulting cartoons of their prophet. Westerners take their land and don’t give a damn if they live in poverty in refugee camps. Abu Ghraib. The ‘terrorists’ in Palestine who are fighting for their brethren. The ‘terrorists’ who are fighting U.S. convoys in Iraq. In his own twisted way, Osama bin Laden and his ilk are martyrs. Misguided, yes, but they believe they are working/dying for a just cause. You know, if he hadn’t decided to take this path, Osama would have been very rich and living in luxury. Now, he’s hiding somewhere in a cave, probably falling ill, and with very little except a position as a figurehead for the Mujahideen and inspiring them to be martyrs for Islam.
You said:
So the Good Samaritan won’t get to Heaven because he doesn’t believe in the right thing? So why did Jesus tell the parable?
My reply:
Totally ignored what I said after… LOL.. it debunks your claim that actions get a person into heaven.. no.. having faith in Jesus as the theif on the cross next to Jesus was told he was going to Paradise because of his faith in Jesus.. Hey, the Good Samaritan never professes his faith in Jesus.
Are you kidding me.. why did Jesus tell the parable? Why ask me.. like you really care? If you don’t recall, the purpose of the parable was loving your neighbor, showing mercy, etc.. Uh huh…I made that point last time; that is the way to Heaven. You said no way. Jesus told who He was speaking to directly, to go and do likewise. Jesus was teaching the Lawyer that right thinking isn’t the only thing because the Lawyer had to also put that into practice.. Jesus was speaking to a Jew.. so that is what the Jewish Lawyer would have understood.. practice what you preach. But if a person is truely saved.. Fruit would accompany that.. you seem to leave off the rest of the NT. A person doesn’t get into heaven by being good.. in fact let me mentioned another parable that proves that. The parable of the Rich Young Man.. in that parable.. the man thought he was living right by keeping the commandments. but Jesus made it clear.. Mark chapter 10:17.. read it.. anyone who reads that would see that it’s not about how good you are, or the commandments if you keep them..
because if you break one commandment you are guilty of breaking all of them..
You said:
Nowhere does it say ‘dogmatic unconditional belief in everything written in the Bible’.
My reply:
Yes it does I already gave it.. but you simple explained it away thru your improvising of the text.. You mean you quoted Paul, and not Christ. Jesus told Satan that man lives on every word that comes out of the mouth of God. Any unbiased theologian who have studied the text will tell you that everywhere God speaks, and the people God used you pay attention to what is said. From Moses to the Apostle John, from Genesis to Revelations.. The word of God, not the word of the Bible. I don’t believe that every word in the Bible is the word of God.
You obviously need an example.. John wrote John 3:16 quoting what Jesus said.. that He is the only way to Heaven.. that is the Word of God, and if you deny that u are denying how to get to heaven. I suggest you study good theology. Jesus’ way is the only way to Heaven. Fanatical discriminating ways are not.
Matthew 4:4
Jesus answered, “It is written: ‘Man does not live on bread alone, but on every word that comes from the mouth of God.’ ” Already answered.
Christians that practice orthodoxy.. Which version? Lutheran? Coptic? Eastern Orthodox? Russian Orthodox? Catholic Orthodox? Syriac Orthodox? Armenian Orthodox? You know, they’re all different. know what I’m talking about.. the bible records things Satan says.. but that isn’t what we are talking about.. but every word that leads people to the God of the Bible, to Jesus or Salvation.. etc.. and if you really knew that, you wouldn’t be confused. Like you said, you grew up as a Chrsitain well, you obviously demonstrate otherwise. I’m kind to others (unless they insult me the way you did) and embrace people of all religions as long as they are good people. That’s a pretty Christian thing to do. I’m following the commandment ‘love your neighbour’.
You said:
I have spoken to a great number of Christians in my time, and I’ve met two, including you, who seem to think that the Bible must be believed unconditionally, contrary to all rational thinking and scientific evidence. Even our local bishop says that evolution makes more sense that creationism. This shows that your brand of ‘Christianity’ reflects only the attitude of a small minority of Christians in the world, and many others do not agree with you, and even despise your views. Indeed, they are shaking their heads at your dogmatic ways.
My reply:
Great number of christians.. wow.. how many would that be? Your only 19.. The age thing again. Ego, try something else; it’s getting old. I talk a lot and to a lot of people, and I read a lot, unlike you. so yeah.. how many would that be? Hundreds. There are a lot of interesting comments made by Christians about the Creation Museum. Here is what I think about secular humanist rational thinking and scientific evidence (which creationist scientist with the same PH’D would argue differently)
18For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, Since I believe in Jesus, this is moot. but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. It seems to me that this is how someone else feels about rational thinking and scientific evidence. I’m sure Ego wasn’t one of the writers of the Bible.19For it is written: In which part of the Bible?
“I will destroy the wisdom of the wise; Apparently, Ego, you were one of those ‘wise’.
the intelligence of the intelligent I will frustrate.”[c]
20Where is the wise man? Where is the scholar? Banging their heads in frustration at the stupidity of people like this person who I am sporking. Where is the philosopher of this age? Hiding in an underground bunker waiting for natural selection to do away with said stupidity. Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world? According to Ego, yes. 21For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not know him, Indeed, many Christians like Ego do not seem to know God, and they think they are wise when they are indeed fools. God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached Like the foolishness of what this little girl preaches, according to Ego. to save those who believe.
And the majority argument is a fallcy.. And the majority of Ego’s argument is…I’ll leave you to fill in the space with the word of your choice. I’m much too well-bred to voice my opinion on this matter. just because a great number of people believe something doesn’t make it ok. Many Christians believe that other religions aren’t as good as their own. That’s not okay. If the majority believes it’s ok to say Jesus is a myth, what am I suppose to believe, that the majority is right? Of course not, but I’m biased. You’re talking to a Christian. However, if the majority tells me that creationism is right, am I supposed to believe? You’re implying that no, I’m not supposed to believe anything as long as the majority believes it.If the majority says it’s ok, to get drunk and I know a lot of people that says its ok, what shall I do then, ignore where it says drunkness is a sin? Give me a break, the Word of God supercedes everything. But how can you prove every word of the Bible was set down by God? Science says Supernaturalism doesn’t happen.. Actually, Science admits that there are a lot of strange phenomenon which can’t be explained through scientific reasoning. they say that because it’s not a regular occurance something they can measure but that doesn’t rule it out.. and the Apostles saw Jesus do Supernatural things, and even Jesus’ enemies.. what should I believe a secular humanist b/c science can’t measure it.. go talk to some unprepared person who doesn’t think outside of the box as we are accused of doing. Science is not an ultimatum; it presents you with a number of theories and then asks you to decide after you have weighed the evidence.
You said:
Of course, as a Christian, I place my faith in Jesus, but you believe in a whole lot of things that Jesus did not say, for example, the Bible must be taken literally word for word. He never said it, so I won’t take the Bible literally word for word.
My reply:
You see this is what I have a problem with.. you really don’t understand what we mean when we say literally word for word, that isn’t what theology says. We take the Bible as literally true.. but you don’t take where Jesus said “gouge out your eye if it causes you to sin” there is a literal truth behind what He is saying when you read the whole context.. if you read everything around it.. Have read everything around Genesis, and looked at all the fossil evidence, the counter arguments, Christ’s word, and then decided that Genesis is one big metaphor. Jesus is saying that if something causes you to sin, cut it out of your life, deal with it harshly, even if you have to run from it, lke Joseph ran from Potiphar’s Wife. However that doesn’t mean that you take Genesis and say it’s the same language used with the example I gave.. you need to understand literal truth where somethings are used as teaching tools for the imagery involved to when it’s literally talking about real people, places and events. Anyone who reads the first 5 books will find that archeology has backed many things… And refuted many others. no one said you believe every word as a literal word. That
is dangerous if you don’t understand that literal truth is communicated but you have to know the literary style. What you are doing is taking Genesis, and saying it’s symbolic, and applying a text that is a teaching text to apply it to a historical text. And we already talked about what Jesus said.. we disagree.. Jesus talked about Adam in a real personal sense, God is Great (Allahu akbar! Elohim Gadol!) and beyond the undertanding of us mere mortals. and you are denying that. You sound just like a atheist..You seem very keen on proving that I’m an atheist so you can give me the finger. and I’m wondering if you have been reading atheistic material. I’ve read atheist stuff, Catholic stuff, Lutheran stuff, Muslim stuff, pagan stuff, Buddhist stuff…I can’t be all of those things at once.
where did this idea come from.. what books did you read. How much time have you got, Ego? I read about three books a week. I’m getting an education, after all. because you obviously have been influenced by something else for sure. Forget the books, you want to know what makes me tick? Go watch Kingdom of Heaven. It’s written by a Christian.
You said:
In the beginning, there was little oxygen, but lots of anaerobic algae
My reply:
Here is the problem. the rocks or this planet formed b/4 any algae. So here is where i have a problem with your free thinking. Oxygen, where did it come from? How was it produced? There was little oxygen, not none. Did you fail English reading comprehension along with science, Ego? At what point did the algae come into play? When God created life. The rocks show that they were formed in an oxygen rich environment? How much is rich? You know, we need a heck of a lot of Oxygen to survive, while other animals don’t need as much. Rocks formed before planet life I don’t think planets have developed lives of their own yet. did it not? And from what I have quoted from an evolutionary source, oxygen was present when the first cell (algae) existed so how could it evolve or come to exist? These are questions I want answered.. so with your free thinking mind, I’m sure you can tell me all these things. I did mention that I believe God created the world, life, and then initiated evolution, didn’t I? And you are speaking from an evolutionary worldview.. I don’t believe they were the first things alive, or in the evolutionary timescale. You want me to take the worldview of science which denies Supernaturalism and God.. LOL. how is that? No, I want you to embrace the world view where science and God are compatible, and everyone is equal.
You said:
As for unicellular organisms becoming multicellular, that happens when these single celled organisms join together in a mass and survive better. They are more like a ’society’, if you like, than a single organism at the moment. However, these cells evolved to rely on one another, and some evolved their own specific adaptations. These ‘masses’ of cells started to form simple multicellular organisms, like jellyfish. Miraculous, but possible; nothing is beyond God, as I said, and I believe that God initiated evolution.
My reply:
LOL.. the fossil record doesn’t support what you are saying.. there is no evidence that single celled ever evolved to multi-celluar organisms.. There is a strata where evidence of single celled organisms were found, and then the next strata, they found some multi-cellular organisms. From logic, it is possible to deduct that these single-celled organisms evolved into multi-cellular organisms. you and many secular humanist evolutionist have a hard time admitting this is an assumption. How about you show me the Creationist point of view then? What, did the first wave of the Flood bury only the single-celled organisms, and then the second wave buried the other single-celled organisms and the multi-cellular organisms?
And God didn’t use the evolutionary model of bacteria to man.. because again they contradict. I stand on the Bible as Adam and Eve were created.. and the Bible says birds were created b/4 dinosaurs.. which contradicts the bible.. so we have been over that one b/4.. it’s moot.. i don’t operate in that non-sense assumption basd fatih Are you trying to write Arabic here? I love Arabic! of evolution. And I don’t accept dogmatic fanatical faith.
You said:
The west opressed Muslims
My reply:
In what way?
Look at Palestine and the situation of common people in all the Middle Eastern countries. Look at the Revolution in Iran, when they overthrew the Shah, who was an American puppet. Look at the Saudi royals who bow to America and exploit their own people because the Americans can benefit, and thus they benefit. Look at the racism.
You said:
Ego, you told me not to generalize. However, you generalize a lot more than I ever can. Did you know that there are people who don’t believe in the Bible but don’t believe in evolution either? What do you call them? They are certainly not ‘neos’. These people I speak of are the Pagans, the people who believe we are an experiment being conducted by aliens and so on and so forth. Follow your own advice and don’t generalize. There are many people who don’t believe in the Bible, and not all of them are like me.
My reply:
Who said I thought that way. I know that pagans had a belief in evolution. You assume I believed that way. I also know pagans who don’t believe in evolution, but they don’t believe in the Bible’s way either.
You said:
I don’t need a link to back up my arguments. Some people do own a brain and did pass high school, you know. For fossils that can be found in a number of stratas, all you can say is that they survived for a long time because of their genetic advantages. Look at sharks; they are some of the longest surviving species around. Why? Early on, they evolved streamlined bodies which made them faster than blunt-headed armoured fish, and they could catch more prey even if they did die more easily. More food means better reproduction. They evolved the ability to replace teeth continually, meaning that they could always catch their food. They evolved tough scales for protection from other predators, which made them even better suited to survival. This is natural selection.
My reply:
Yeah, you show that very well you don’t back up what you are saying, it’s pretty much your improvising ways…. so if you say that there are people living on another planet, it’s all backed up by brain power, yeah.. ok.. Look, improvisation is a sign of intelligence and quick thinking. At least I passed high school; that’s something you don’t seem to have done.
And I’m not an evolutionist I don’t view genetic material the same as an evolutionist.. sorry, preach that to your fellow believers.. If they already believe, then I would be wasting my breath preaching to the converted. i’m not one. You are very adept at pointing out the obvious, Ego. I’m impressed.
Your last comment isn’t worth answering. I’ll leave it to Scripture
Proverbs 26:4
Do not answer a fool according to his folly, or you will be like him yourself. Answer him only with the supposed Word of God, for then he will be convinced of his folly and repent.
Proverbs 26:3-5 (in Context) Proverbs 26 (Whole Chapter) What, no more quoting?
Proverbs 26:5
Answer a fool according to his folly, or he will be wise in his own eyes. Hey, Ego, maybe I should be more condescending towards you. Otherwise, you’ll think you’re smart.
Ego-eimi’s reply can be seen in the comment thread of The Great YouTube Debate 9. He was answering that post.
First of all, Ego-eimi, the people following this discussion probably do care, or else they wouldn’t be reading it. As for Jesus telling people to repent, do you think other religions don’t say that as well? Mohammed told his followers to turn away from sin and superstition and submit themselves to God and His laws. ‘Islam’ means ‘Submission’. Jesus did tell us to be nice and peaceful; He told us to ‘love one another as I have loved you’. If everyone was that loving, then by logic, the world would be a very peaceful place indeed. In that way, He told us to be peaceful. I don’t know about other churches, but during our church services, we have to wish each other peace. And didn’t Jesus say ‘Peace be with you’ when He greeted His disciples after the Resurrection? So in that way, it can be seen that peace is the key. All the Ten Commandments point to a peaceful existence. The only way to Heaven to repent is to see what you’ve done in the past to violate the commandments of peace, and do what you can to rectify it.
I know nothing of your relationship with your wife, but if a man tried to make me follow and he hasn’t got any reason for me to do so other than because he is a man and I am a woman, then I’d scorn him. It’s that simple.
As for Muslims hating Christians…no. Not true. Mohammed himself told his followers to respect the People of the Book (meaning Christians and Jews) because they were the ones who received the Word of God before the Muslims did. The majority of Muslims do not agree with what Osama bin Laden believes. Bin Laden is part of a new Islamic movement, called Wahabism; that’s a form of extreme militant Islam, and it’s only about a century or so old. It’s also a minority. Most Muslims prefer to live peacefully alongside their neighbours. Although the Crusaders and the Muslims fought, the Muslims never really thought of it as Jihad until fifty years after the Crusaders first appeared, and they respected the Christians enough not to slaughter them or destroy their holy places. The one place that did get destroyed, the Holy Sepulchre, got rebuilt by a Sultan because he was ashamed of what had been done.
Do you also think that Protestants aren’t guilty of religious discrimination? They barred Catholics from owning land in Ireland, kept them poor in England, and forbade them to practise their religion in the open. Anyone found practising Catholicism was fined or imprisoned. Catholic priests were hung, drawn and quartered. Religious discrimination is not just a thing of Islam and the Catholic church.
However, in this modern world, Christians are not as persecuted as, say, Muslims are. At least there aren’t four million Christians living in squalor in refugee camps.
Did Jesus ever say that worshipping in a different way was wrong? No, he didn’t. I think you would know the parable of the Good Samaritan well. It’s one of my favourite parables because it illustrates how actions, and not beliefs or status, can get a man into the Kingdom of Heaven. It is the Samaritan who will go to Heaven, despite worshipping in the wrong way and in the wrong place, because he is the one who showed love and mercy to the man who had been beaten by robbers.
The Jews might not have incorporated pagan practices into their religion, but the early Christians sure did. You have Christmas presents and Christmas trees, right? That’s a Christianized pagan practice. The Pagans celebrate a festival called Yule, and they had trees and exchanged presents. You know how it was snowing in Bethlehem when Jesus was born? That shows that Jesus was born in late October, not December. Why is Christmas held in December? Because that was when Yule was held. All Souls Day is also incorporated from Pagan practices. The Pagans have a festival called Samhain. That’s the day when the barrier between the world of the living and the world of spirits either weakens or disappears altogether, and souls can go back and visit their families. That’s why we have All Saints Day and All Souls Day. It was easier to give a Christian theme to these pagan festivals than abolish them altogether. Mos of this happened in Europe, where this brand of Paganism was practised. Purgatory is another pagan idea, for the Pagans had a place for the souls of people who weren’t bad, but who weren’t very good either. There are also Roman influences in Christian doctrine after Constantine made it the official religion of the Roman Empire. Whether Constantine was truly a Christian is debatable, for after his conversion, there are coins of him showing him being portrayed as Apollo and honouring the sun god.
The Adam, Eve and Sin argument; Didn’t I mention that on YouTube? I said that the ‘Fall’ symbolized the fact that humans evolved to be intelligent enough to develop morals, and that they realized that some things they did were wrong, but they did them anyway. Knowing that something is wrong but doing it anyway is sin. Before the evolution of a big enough brain which could develop morals, proto-humans were completely ignorant, so they weren’t sinning because they didn’t know that what they were doing was wrong. That’s what you’re saying in this passage: (of course, you would deny the whole evolution part, but you just proved that to sin, you need to know what you’re doing.)
When they sinned their eyes were opened like the text says, they became aware of sin, they knew they did wrong. Prior to that they didn’t know what disobdience was, or what lying was or what stealing was, or what adultery was you get the point. So any of their offspring after the Fall as it’s called in theological circles their off spring as they mature have the ability to recognize sin (lying, or stealing).
Um, Santa Claus was actually a historical figure. We know him as Saint Nicholas. Saint (Santa) NiCHOLAS (Claus). What I’m saying is that God made a covenant with all human beings, but in the Bible, it is written as God made a pact with Adam because Adam is symbolic of all human beings. After the Resurrection, the Covenant was renewed and changed.
I find Jesus and Christianity to be different things. You’ll find Jesus’ teachings in many religions. However, you only find Christian teachings in Christian churches. Yes, Jesus is the only way, but there are many ways to go about doing things in Jesus’ way, because he gave us many broad definitions. Human beings are the ones who insist on making things so specific. Jesus was a universalist in his own way; He embraced the Jews, the Samaritans and everyone else who would have otherwise been excluded. That is an example for how a follower of Jesus should behave. One should embrace all the others who would otherwise be excluded because of differences in religion, culture, and so on and so forth.
I don’t give a damn about how you believe I am damned because of my views. God will judge me, not you. Just because you say that my kind will all go to Hell doesn’t mean that it will happen.
Ego-eimi, you insulted me personally from the very start. If you hadn’t called me an arrogant neo, then I would have been kinder, and perhaps overlooked your spelling. But you first called me an arrogant neo, and then you called me a coward. That made it personal. As for calling someone arrogant not being an insult, you can look at that definition you provided again. Every single thing mentioned there was negative. ‘Coward’ is an insult in any language.
You want this to become neutral again? Then you owe me an apology. I’ll admit that I have shown you my worse side, but until you apologize, I have no regrets about behaving in such a hostile manner. Should you apologize, we can agree to disagree or continue this debate in a detached professional manner. It’s up to you. But if you don’t, then I sure won’t let someone insult me and get away with it. You made it personal first, Ego-eimi, and it’s now up to you to make it impersonal.
And while you’re at it, I believe you might owe some other people apologies as well.
Ego-eimi: First thing first, must you insist in clogging up my inbox with nineteen posts? You could have put all of those in one post, and then directed me to your blog. It saves your time and mine. Secondly, one or two typos are all right. Your number of spelling mistakes…sorry, I don’t do text language, not even on my mobile phone. Call me a stuck up arrogant little girl if you want, but I’m all for proper English. Right, so to save your time, I’ll summarize my points and probably will leave out the less important ones.
Now, I’ve looked over your stuff. I’m sorry you took two hours to type it all up because it was tedious to read. About your answer concerning the marine animals. That was not an answer. Yes, some died while giving birth, but not that many. If that many had died, they would have all gone extinct long ago. So what really happened? The Old Earth theory is the one that can explain it.
No, I do not believe that a woman should be subject to a man’s authority, nor should she need to follow a man. There is a reason why I admire Eleanor of Aquitaine. She was never subject to any man. She had the power. Her first husband divorced her and lost most of his kingdom. Jesus never said women were inferior. Have you noticed? It was the women who were the most devoted of His disciples. They were better than the twelve because they dared to be present during His passion. I also don’t believe in social hierarchies. Respect is earned. I won’t respect someone more just because he is a man or she is a woman or he is older than me or whatever.
I believe that God judges us by our actions. So it doesn’t matter what you believe as long as you abide by His laws and make the world a better place by bringing peace. Jesus came to bring peace. Jesus is Peace. And by bringing peace, we are following His way. Those who claim to be Christians and yet spread dissension amongst others by saying that they are better just because they are baptized are not doing what Christ advocated. I would die for peace, but not for religion.
As for Osama bin Laden, I see where his anger is coming from. While he’s transformed it into religion, it’s actually national pride. Look at the Middle East. You see Americans controlling the Saudi royals, Americans controlling the oil, Americans controlling everything worth controlling. Western companies exploit the poor of the Middle East. They wreak havoc, and they don’t care how many people they hurt as long as they get rich. Look at Blackwater. Look at Palestine. Bin Laden is angry on behalf of the poor and the exploited. He wants to be free of the western yoke. The West has always been associated with Christianity, so in his mind, the right thing to do, if he was to liberate his people, was to declare the lesser Jihad. Do you know how many people look at him as the modern Saladin? They need hope and someone to lead them to it. People without hope do dangerous things.
Now look at you. Are you persecuted and exploited so that you have no food on the table? No, you’re not. Do people put Bibles on toilet seats like the soldiers in Abu Ghraib did with the Qur’an? I don’t think so. If they do, believe me, I would be just as angry. Are your brethren shot for no reason? No. Osama has a reason to be angry. I call him a fanatic and I call him delusional, but since I can see the cause, I feel pity for him.
As for all the laws of the Old Testament, do you follow them? Do you eat pork? Apparently, God said not to eat pork, snails, snakes, anything that crawls etc. Would the French and the Chinese and most people in the world be cursed then? If the Old Testament with all its laws were truly that reliable, then we would be following them all, instead of cherry-picking, as you like to say. The segregation of lepers, let me tell you, is something that most people in the ancient world, pagan or otherwise, did. The Hebrews simply incorporated it into their religion and gave it religious justification because it felt wrong to ostracize someone who was already ill and suffering. However, they believed leprosy was contagious because they mixed it up with syphilis and they feared catching leprosy/syphilis, so they made segregation compulsory by incorporating it into religious law. It made them feel better about doing it. In Psychology, this is called the theory of cognitive dissonance.
Here’s the passage concerning Moses and the Midianites.
I’ll let the text speak for itself.
I used the question of adultery as an example. Do I inherit the sins of my ancestors? No, I don’t. I have my own sins, but they’re different from those of my ancestors. In that same way, I do not inherit the sins of Adam and Eve (and I believe they are symbolic, so it is moot.) Why would the Bible then say that people inherited the original sin? Because the ancients believed that children carried the sins of their parents. That was why illegitimate children were ostracized. All people are born with a clean record, but with the potential to sin. That does not mean that they are born with sin. The potential to get a PhD, for example, does not make me a holder of a PhD.
Racial discrimination is discrimination. Religious discrimination is also discrimination. Would you say that Jews worship the wrong way? There is no right way of worship. Many would say that Protestants worship the wrong way, and others would say that Catholics worship the wrong way. Coptic Christians, Syriac Christians, Armenian Christians, Greek Orthodox Christians, Cathars, Hussites, Sunni Muslims, Sevener Shi’ite Muslims, Twelver Shi’ite Muslims, Wahabis, Sufis; we all worship in a different way. You cannot say that someone worships the wrong way just because they don’t worship the way you do. To say that they are wrong would be narrowminded. Do you know why there was an Albigensian crusade? Certain Christians believed that other Christians weren’t worshipping Christ correctly and that they weren’t believing in the right doctrines, and they went down and massacred them or forcefully converted them to the ‘right’ way of worship. What about the Spanish Inquisition? They burned Jews and Protestants just because they weren’t Catholics. That’s discrimination. You might think that your little bit of religious discrimination won’t do much, but it builds up. I don’t want another holocaust, and I’m sure you don’t either.
Adam is a symbol for all human beings, meaning that God made the covenant with all human beings. How does that not make sense?
I’ll tell you something; I was seduced by your way of life once. I once read a novel called Sedona Storm and it discriminated against the occult as well as other forms of more lenient Christianity. The authors were devout Christians, and they took the Bible very literally. The book told of how the Holy Spirit spoke directly to one of the characters. It was an exciting read, and to my childish mind, it made so much sense. I needed God’s presence in my life and I thought that perhaps this book had the answers. I went to church every week, but I did not feel God. So I took up this pious lifestyle of prayer and denounced anything that went against the Bible, except evolution because it still made so much sense. Guess what? I didn’t feel God either. The more I looked, the more artificial this sort of lifestyle became. Then along came another story, about an agnostic and depressed man who finally finds God. Yes, I’m talking about Kingdom of Heaven. You should see it sometime; it can teach you a lot of things. The moment I understood the film was the moment I found God. I didn’t find Him in scripture, I didn’t find him in prayer; I found him in this story which advocated peace and goodness, and nothing else. It was from then onwards that I understood that advocating peace and love was the only way to God and to salvation.
Fighting and dying for religion; we’ve been through all that. Look at the Holy Land. It was once the Kingdom of Heaven. The oranges of Jaffa, the fabrics of Damascus and Mosul; it was rich, it was vibrant. It was prosperous and heavenly. Coptic Christians, Syriac Christians, Armenian Christians, Jews and Muslims lived in harmony alongside each other, sharing festivals, doing trade. They even shared the same temples. The church of St. John the Baptist in Damascus once had a Christian end and a Muslim end, and even though the Muslims have long since bought the church and converted it into a mosque, there is still a niche for St. John’s head. Then along came the Crusaders, who believed that the only way to God was their way, much as you believe, Ego-eimi. They fought for God on that soil. They’re still fighting for God over there, so now it’s Hell on earth.
So open your mind to other religions and beliefs. Let them be, and don’t try and say that you’re better than them because of what you believe. Such pride is unbecoming of anyone, let alone a self-proclaimed devout follower of Christ. Jesus was humility personified.
So I believe that I’ve finally found the truth, but what do I believe in really? And even now, I’m still discovering what I truly believe, but the basis of all my beliefs is that we do not have the right to judge; that right belongs to God and God alone. We have no right to say that someone will go to Hell just because they believe in the ‘wrong’ religion. What is right and what is wrong? Can we, as mere humans, really be so certain? The world is not black and white, as we have often been told.
Many people have found my beliefs rather strange, almost atheist in nature, or at least agnostic. I do not believe institutionalized religion. They have been corrupted by the greed of men (and women). So many doctrines can be traced back to certain people. For example, the Catholic ban on contraceptives goes back to Augustine of Hippo, the fifth century theologian who believed that a good marriage was one with a bunch of kids. It is interesting to note that he was a celibate churchman in an age where Catholic priests were permitted to marry. The notion of Purgatory goes back to Pope Urban II who made it up in the eleventh century so that he could use it to blackmail people into going crusading by telling them that if they went to the Holy Land to fight the infidels, they would have to spend less time in Purgatory when they died. The idea that a Catholic must go to confession goes back to Pope Innocent III in the thirteenth century, who used this as a tool to maintain the Church’s presence in Christendom. During that time, the Church was having a power dispute with the Holy Roman Emperor. Read the rest of this entry »
