Egoeimi replied, and you can read his reply in the comments for The Great Youtube Debate 7. If you can’t be bothered reading it in full, because it is extremely long, I will be summarizing his points.
Charge number 1: I have not been answering all his questions, and he expects me to because I expect him to, so I must do it to him too.
Ego-eimi, I expect you to answer my points and questions, yes, but you never fully answer mine. Remember that question about marine reptiles? Well, I’ll refresh your memory. I asked you, if dinosaur fossils were formed when the Great Flood covered them with mud, then how come the fossils of the marine reptiles are found in the same strata? Those two groups went extinct at the same time, and if the Flood caused the great number of dinosaur deaths, did it cause the deaths of all those marine reptiles too? Did those sea creatures also drown in the flood? You told me to ask someone who knew a bit more about them. That is not an answer.
Charge number 2: My claims that Paul and the apostles could be wrong are unfounded, because Christ promised them that the Holy Spirit would refresh their memories.
Perhaps the Holy Spirit would refresh the memories of the apostles and remind them of what Christ has taught them. However, Paul is more often doling out advice. Jesus never said anything about how women should behave, yet Paul says that a woman must submit herself to her husband. Then you say that the Old Testament is also the absolute truth. This is unfounded. In it, it says that ”Anyone who is discovered to have leprosy must tear his clothes and let his hair grow in wild disarray, and cover his upper lip and call out as he goes, ‘I am a leper, I am a leper’ [which means that he is unclean] As long as the disease lasts, he is defiled and must live outside the camp.’ (Leviticus 13:45-46) However, leprosy is not highly infectious, and quarantine is not necessary, as most people are immune to it. God must have known it, and He would not cause those people to suffer so by forcing them to be isolated. This shows the human influence in the Bible.
You say that those ordained by God cannot be wrong. However, Moses himself said this. “Why have you let all the [Midianite] women live? These are the very ones who followed Balaam’s advice and cuased the people of Israel to worship idols on Mount Peor, and they are the cause of the plague that destroyed us. Now kill all the boys and all the women who have had sexual intercourse. Only the little girls may live; you may keep them for yourselves.” Here is a chosen one of God ordering massacres and paedophilia, for what do you think would happen to those little girls kept by the soldiers? How can you say that Moses was acting in God’s name here? The Old Testament is a history of the Hebrew people, yes, but not every word of it is the word of God, unless you take it into context, in which case, God would not have told the ancients about evolution and genetic mutation because they simply would not have understood it. Nor would he have spoken of continental drift, the millions of years of natural history, and so on and so forth.
You say that Jesus would accept everything that Paul said. How about this? “And that is why a woman who publicly prays or prophesies without a covering on her head dishonours her husband [for her covering is a sign of her subjection to him]. Yes, if she refuses to wear a head covering, then she should cut off all her hair. And if it is shameful for a woman to have her head shaved, then she should wear a covering…So a woman should wear a covering on her head as a sign that she is under man’s authority, a fact for all the angels to notice and rejoice in.” Would Jesus approve of such double standards and inequality? I doubt He would. This sort of thing was not what he preached, and he never said anything about women’s dress codes.
Charge number 3: Jesus refuting the handwashing was symbolic of him making the old rules and traditions obsolete.
Exactly, so that means Jesus Himself knows that the Old Testament was not all correct, and therefore we must treat the Old Testament with some skepticism, including the Book of Genesis. Elijah might have told people to accept all or nothing when it came to religion, but he was one of those old prophets. If Jesus refuted the old laws and ways, then perhaps Elijah’s warning might not have been correct either.
Ego-eimi wants to know how I think people can find salvation.
One is saved by doing the right thing, which means following God’s commandments. There are the ten, and there is that special one; “Love one another as I have loved you.” To be saved, you must be brave and upright. You must speak the truth, and not bury your conscience behind convenience. You must never blame your mistakes on someone else, even if they did tell you to make such a mistake, because your mind, your body and your conscience are your own. You must safeguard the helpless and defend those who cannot defend themselves. You must make the world a better place by bringing peace and prosperity to everyone, not just your own kind. Yes, I paraphrased that from the movie Kingdom of Heaven, but that is only because I agree with it. Note that I did not quote directly from it.
He also want to know whether I would die for Christ.
As for whether I would die for Jesus, I honestly don’t know, and I hope that God will not put me to the test. However, I would die for peace, for that is what I truly believe in. The type of discrimination which you practise, Ego-eimi, can only lead to war. It already has led to war; the Crusades are a very good example. The Christians believed themselves to be better than the Muslims, and more deserving of the Holy Land, and vice versa.
He wants to know whether I believe in the Resurrection.
Yes, and I’ve answered it before.
The Canaanite question.
Of course some of them fought back. If someone invaded the U.S., would you not fight back? Defense of one’s country is not a sin. Rather, it is an honourable thing to do. Killing the defenders is something that a human might do, but even the more honourable human commanders would let their honourable adversaries live. See Saladin and his adversary, Balian of Ibelin. Killing the defenders was something that the Israelites wanted to do, so they put it down in the holy book as a divine order.
I’d rather not get into an argument about Al-Qaeda, for while I don’t agree with Osama bin Laden, I pity him and I can see where he’s coming from.
Have you seen Atheists going around handing out flyers and magazines, trying to convert people? I don’t think so. I’ve seen lots of Christians do it though. This sort of evangelization is called ramming beliefs down people’s throats. As for Jesus saying that “He is the only way”, I believe that he meant His teachings are the only way to Heaven. That’s fine, because Mohammed preached the same things as Jesus did; peace, unity, justice and love. Those are the things which lead people to God, and that makes Mohammed a prophet. That is what the Qur’an is supposed to be; God’s word, in Arabic. God doesn’t only speak Aramaic and Greek, you know. Mohammed did lead his people to God. They call their god Allah, which means ‘The One God’, and they recognize that Allah is also the God of the Christians and of the Jews. Which in turn means that they believe in the same God as we do. Looking down on Muslims because you believe they worship the wrong way is discrimination, and that leads to war. That is not what a Christian is supposed to do.
Also, have you realized that not all Christians have the same doctrines and beliefs?
You know what, I think you like being persecuted because it makes you feel holy. You feel like you’re a warrior for your faith. No one is persecuting the Christian way of life. The atheists only want you to keep your beliefs to yourselves.
I’m not saying that the theologians don’t know what they’re talking about. They know what they’re talking about. I just don’t agree with them. From my readings, I’ve made my own decisions about certain things in life and I’ve formulated my own opinions.
As for genetic mutations, it’s been observed. Look at Downs Syndrome, for example. People have been able to create new organisms through changing the DNA structure and artificially inserting gene sequences into other gene sequences. Therefore, evolution is not a faith, but a scientific theory. A theory is an idea which is reasonable, but still has mistakes.
“These creatures use this light for communicating with each other and identifying others of their own species, since most other sea creatures cannot detect such a light, which is important for their survival.”
Scientists have observed that light is used by different organisms for communication. One can incorporate prove facts into their arguments to back it up. Quoting opinions, however, just means you are too lazy. By the way, that was not a quote. It’s not a fault to be able to write better than you. If you’d read enough scientific stuff, you would realize that sentence is not a very good sentence. No one in their right mind would publish something written like that.
As I’ve said, evolution is a theory, which means it still has room for presumptions and guesses. However, it makes a lot more sense than ‘The world was created in seven days and you’d better believe it or else you’re going to burn in hell.’
Here’s a quote from ArianneG which explains evolution:
“Look at the fruit fly experiments, and things like Down’s syndrome and Angelman’s syndrome! Evolution happens all around us; our genes are changing from generation to generation. Jut because said mutations are ’silent’ (non-expressed mutations) doesn’t mean that they aren’t there, or that they can’t produce great effects within a single generation. Whenver genetic content changes, whether radically or minor fashion, evolution and change is ongoing.”
No, I do not believe in original sin. Just because an illegitimate child’s parents are guilty of adultery does not mean that the child also carries that sin. And I don’t even believe in Adam and Eve. I believe all people are born with clean records, and it is what they do that makes them wicked or good. So, yes, I think baptism is obsolete. I was never ‘conversted’ or rather, converted. I was born into the faith, and have been raised as a Christian.
I asked about sin b/4. Sin is a real thing, it’s disobedience to God. Adam sinned, it’s a fact that it’s taught that Sin came thru one man Adam.. but the Second Adam which is Jesus dealt with Sin and defeated it for us who are being Saved. Jesus talked about Adam and Eve when the Divorce issue came up.. that isn’t symbolic people… and I said b/4, if sin didn’t come thru real people but symbolic people then that means sin doesn’t really exist so why would we need Jesus? The Adamic Covenant was insituted with Adam… that isn’t made to symbolic people.
As I don’t believe in original sin, arguing about the fact is moot. Yes, Jesus did come to save us from sin, however, because He showed us how to live correctly, and that is by loving each other as He has loved us. How many times do I have to repeat it? That is the only way to salvation and that is the only rule a Christian, or anyone else, needs to follow.
As I believe that Adam represents all human beings, that covenant was made to us all. It was not made to a symbolic person because we are not symbolic. Adam, however, is.
And is writing in proper English too much to ask? If you really took an entire hour to write this reply, then you would at least make the effort to write ‘because’ instead of ‘b/c’ and ‘before’ instead of ‘b/4′.
Ego-eimi, I expect you to answer my points and questions, yes, but you never fully answer mine. Remember that question about marine reptiles? Well, I’ll refresh your memory. I asked you, if dinosaur fossils were formed when the Great Flood covered them with mud, then how come the fossils of the marine reptiles are found in the same strata? Those two groups went extinct at the same time, and if the Flood caused the great number of dinosaur deaths, did it cause the deaths of all those marine reptiles too? Did those sea creatures also drown in the flood? You told me to ask someone who knew a bit more about them. That is not an answer.
My reply:
I did in youtube.. and it go’s to show how you simply want to or it appears to mislead people. Here is the record of your question in youtube, and my reply right after it.
(Youtube: You asked: TelcontarRulz (2 weeks ago) Show Hide
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Babylonian gate: some other giant land mammal, mixed with a lot of imagination. You know, the Ancient Greeks drew lots of pictures of centaurs and satires. We’ve yet to find proof that men with horses’ bodies actually exist.
Marine reptiles didn’t get on the ark, but even if they didn’t, they wouldn’t die in the flood anyway. So how did they die out? Hmm?
You are excessively proud in that you are completely certain that you are right and everyone else in the world is wrong.
I responded in youtube and here it is:
egoeimi3 (2 weeks ago) Show Hide
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What a cope-out.. i see you are being evasive and continue to evade the question… their are pictures of the discoveries.. just google it.. cleary depicting dinosaours. Also the Mesopotamian cylinders that clearly show Apatosaurus’. I don’t care if u guys are in denial.. not my problem.
LOL.. not all marine life died out.. ever heard of living fossils the convient term neo’s use for animals they thought went extinct LOL.
LOL… doublestandard on being right..
When I made the comment that not all marine life died out.. i said to you ever heard of living fossils?
And if you would have been paying attention.. I addressed that with someone else which u out of the blue jumped into the back and forth debate I was having with others.. and I told them when they asked about marine animals.. they didn’t get on the Ark, only land animals. But that there is some marine animals that got buried or are found in fossil rock in fact giving birth.
So I will break each of my response like this.. answering one at a time.
Jesus never said anything about how women should behave, yet Paul says that a woman must submit herself to her husband
My reply: Again, read my comments clearly.. Jesus gave the Apostles Authority including Paul. Paul knew the Apostles and met with them on occasions to discuss matters of faith. Paul raised the dead and so did Peter. And submit to her husband is something if you read thru the text is something a woman chooses to do, not that she has to. My wife willing does.. but she also challenges me and I listen and have went with her decision on things. Marriage Biblical pattern is the man leads the woman supports him.. that was the created order. Adam was suppost to protect Eve and say no to eathing the fruit. But I don’t expect you to believe it because you interpet as you want to.
You said:
Then you say that the Old Testament is also the absolute truth. This is unfounded. In it, it says that ”Anyone who is discovered to have leprosy must tear his clothes and let his hair grow in wild disarray, and cover his upper lip and call out as he goes, ‘I am a leper, I am a leper’ [which means that he is unclean] As long as the disease lasts, he is defiled and must live outside the camp.’ (Leviticus 13:45-46) However, leprosy is not highly infectious, and quarantine is not necessary, as most people are immune to it. God must have known it, and He would not cause those people to suffer so by forcing them to be isolated. This shows the human influence in the Bible.
You said:
Then you say that the Old Testament is also the absolute truth. This is unfounded. In it, it says that ”Anyone who is discovered to have leprosy must tear his clothes and let his hair grow in wild disarray, and cover his upper lip and call out as he goes, ‘I am a leper, I am a leper’ [which means that he is unclean] As long as the disease lasts, he is defiled and must live outside the camp.’ (Leviticus 13:45-46) However, leprosy is not highly infectious, and quarantine is not necessary, as most people are immune to it. God must have known it, and He would not cause those people to suffer so by forcing them to be isolated. This shows the human influence in the Bible.
My reply:
Regardless, this is Leviticus. Do you know what Leviticus means? Why it’s rules and regulations? God laid out rules for skin diease and infections. If God wanted some to spend time away from came b/c of something infectionousness is the point. God made rules on woman’s discharge and if a man had sex with them during that time. How they had to take appropiate steps before coming back into the camp. There rules that for whatever reason God wanted things to be done in order to stay pure b/4 him under the Jewish system.
And this has nothing to do with human influence, this is simply Moses telling the people the rules good put forth. And there are like 635 of them by count.
You said: You say that those ordained by God cannot be wrong. However, Moses himself said this. “Why have you let all the [Midianite] women live? These are the very ones who followed Balaam’s advice and cuased the people of Israel to worship idols on Mount Peor, and they are the cause of the plague that destroyed us. Now kill all the boys and all the women who have had sexual intercourse. Only the little girls may live; you may keep them for yourselves.” Here is a chosen one of God ordering massacres and paedophilia, for what do you think would happen to those little girls kept by the soldiers? How can you say that Moses was acting in God’s name here? The Old Testament is a history of the Hebrew people, yes, but not every word of it is the word of God, unless you take it into context, in which case, God would not have told the ancients about evolution and genetic mutation because they simply would not have understood it. Nor would he have spoken of continental drift, the millions of years of natural history, and so on and so forth.
You say that Jesus would accept everything
My reply:LOL.. I reviewed the verse.. I would like to know what you are quoting. Secondly no where in the text that I read which was the NIV says “little girls”.
Here is the quote from the KJV
16Behold, these caused the children of Israel, through the counsel of Balaam, to commit trespass against the LORD in the matter of Peor, and there was a plague among the congregation of the LORD.
17Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him.
18But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves.
Notice in verse 31:16 it says the children of Israel.. see that. Is that talking about 5 year olds.. no.. Kill every male among the little ones.. doesn’t mention an age #1, and secondly, it was tribal warfare the nations did this to each other, and u ignored what I said about Al-Queda. Which I will address that statement u said ealier. They trail children as young as 5-8 years of age and corrupted them. So God would know how far the corruption went, that if those children were so corrupt would they have change? I would say not, and that children b/4 the age of accountability go to heaven, so this would be a merciful act that some in the end result go to heaven, but u can’t allow the cancer to corrupt the whole. For example: If you found a village with children along with adults had a diease that would wipe out the population of people as we know it, and the only way to get read of it is to nuke the town, what would be the greater good? Sometimes things have to happen for a great good. In this sad state of affairs in this country, they abort unborn babies for what they view as a greater good, yet no one seems to have a problem with it, but they have a problem with the biblical text where God takes life and He can justfifiably because of being the Creator.
About the little girls.. the text doesn’t say little girls, just says those that never had sexual relations.. so they were of age to mate, and if they were you assume that men were having sex with 5 year olds or whatever the age.. that would contradict God by the way who wouldn’t ok the raping of chirldren.. and how sad is that coming from a so called Christian? Wow
And Moses did speak what God said. What do you think how Lev. starts out? Moses recieved what God wanted the people to do.. you have a problem with it, because you are doing what unbelievers doing.. u strike me as a carnal Believer if u are one which I will address later about being saved.
You said:
You say that Jesus would accept everything that Paul said. How about this? “And that is why a woman who publicly prays or prophesies without a covering on her head dishonours her husband [for her covering is a sign of her subjection to him]. Yes, if she refuses to wear a head covering, then she should cut off all her hair. And if it is shameful for a woman to have her head shaved, then she should wear a covering…So a woman should wear a covering on her head as a sign that she is under man’s authority, a fact for all the angels to notice and rejoice in.” Would Jesus approve of such double standards and inequality? I doubt He would. This sort of thing was not what he preached, and he never said anything about women’s dress codes.
My reply:
LOL u see this is why you need to understand culture and the problem going on in the Corthian Church, which I know that is where u got it from.
#1.. Paul if you read the whole context of what the situation was there.. spoke about the created order.. Adam was Created first then Eve. So Paul is pattern the order of roles.. who is the Authoriity figure and who is the one to allow that one to be in Authority.
The roles for men and women in Gods eyes is men in marriage, church in those contexts are to lead and protect their wives as the weaker partner. Man and Woman are created different and think and use their brains different. Men make decisions outside of emotion, women have a tendency to involved their emotions more than they should.. so it’s a role issue.. not a man dominance issue. Man is to not rule or put a woman down, or rule over them.. the roles are for them to agree upon.. the woman allows the man to lead, and the man loves his wife as Christ loved the church. the Church submits to Christ.
If you would have read or stop ignoring the whole context, you would see that Paul is putting the relationship with man to woman in church sittings and later in marriage that a man is the head as Christ is the Head of the Church.. and man is to submit to Christ as woman is to submit to Christ in roles. Man doesn’t have to listen to anything Jesus says.. nor does a woman have to listen to her husband in marriage or in a church setting.
The issues in that church was women were refusing to follow the roles God set forth from Creation. Woman not covering their had was them saying they were taking Authority over men and playing the role of the Leader, which that isn’t God’s design. So would u say those woman were being woman-chovenist.. of course not.. and they were not being that.. they were not following that God chooses men to lead as the pattern has been from the OT to the NT.. there was only one woman prophetist and one leader in Debra b/c the men in that situation didn’t lead.
Your problem is u are trying to say Paul had a problem with women.. wrong.. Paul had women teaching men in his ministry.. ever read the book of Romans.. Paul had women teaching men.. but it wasn’t in a church structure.. and that go’s to show how you cherry pick.. Paul doesn’t have anything against women. See Romans 16 this is what Paul said and gave a whole lot of kudos to a woman:
1I commend unto you Phebe our sister, which is a servant of the church which is at Cenchrea:
2That ye receive her in the Lord, as becometh saints, and that ye assist her in whatsoever business she hath need of you: for she hath been a succourer of many, and of myself also.
Yes Jesus approved of Paul, that is why he was given the same abilites as Peter.. Jesus knew Pauls heart.. Paul use to be called Saul who hated Christians yet Jesus saw in Paul a great evangelist. YOur issues is you R misinterpeting the text.. and this is why u get erroneious teaching.
You said:
Exactly, so that means Jesus Himself knows that the Old Testament was not all correct, and therefore we must treat the Old Testament with some skepticism, including the Book of Genesis. Elijah might have told people to accept all or nothing when it came to religion, but he was one of those old prophets. If Jesus refuted the old laws and ways, then perhaps Elijah’s warning might not have been correct either.
My reply:
Wow! Jesus correction of the Pharisees and Teachers of the Law.. went way over your head.. Jesus isn’t saying or having any problems with the OT. In fact Jesus quoted the OT many times when teaching and correct the misinterpetation of OT Scripture by the Teachers of the Law and Pharisees.. are you kidding really. Again, this is why people come up with erroneious ideas like this.. Jesus said the Scripture can’t be broken… the OT was in existence and that is what He is talking about.
When Jesus was tempted by the Devil in the Desert.. He quote OT passages to combat the lies of Satan, and acutally correctly quote Scripture where as Satan twisted the Scripture to make it say something it didn’t.. like what you have shown yourself to be doing.
And what are you talking about concerning Elijah?
And Jesus didn’t refute OT Laws.. get it correct.. Jesus refuted incorrect teaching of the Teachers of the Law and Pharisees and Sadducess as well..
Ego-eimi wants to know how I think people can find salvation.
One is saved by doing the right thing, which means following God’s commandments. There are the ten, and there is that special one; “Love one another as I have loved you.” To be saved, you must be brave and upright. You must speak the truth, and not bury your conscience behind convenience. You must never blame your mistakes on someone else, even if they did tell you to make such a mistake, because your mind, your body and your conscience are your own. You must safeguard the helpless and defend those who cannot defend themselves. You must make the world a better place by bringing peace and prosperity to everyone, not just your own kind. Yes, I paraphrased that from the movie Kingdom of Heaven, but that is only because I agree with it. Note that I did not quote directly from it.
My reply:
This is what concerns me the most.. regardless of what you believe about evolution and my heart is troubled.
Not once did you use or show how someone is saved. And this is why I”m concerned that you might not know Jesus as Lord and Savior based on how u answered this. Jesus made it clear.. the Apostles made it clear about salvation.
And quoting movie lies, has nothing to do with anything. If you think this brings wars.. wrong.. wars start for many reasons.. not in the context of religion as you clearly are saying like so man atheist.
Ep. 2:8-9 makes it clear, that it’s not by works.. i don’t care how nice a person is, I don’t care how good they are, I don’t care if they feed the poor or bring prosperity to anyone, u can’t earn your way into heaven by being good.
Read the Apostle James..
Read Gal Chapter 5.
Jesus said that a person must repent. john the baptist preached repentance.
it’s simple..
A person must Hear the Gospel, repent, confess be baptized after conversion as a sign to everyone they accept but doesn’t have to be done if they are in prison, b/c it’s not a works based faith, but should get baptize if they are able, and remain faithful.
The Scripture backing to that is Romans 10:17 (hear the Gospel as Jesus preached it), Mark 16:16 & Heb 11:6( Have faith in Christ), Acts 17:30 and Luke 13:3 (repentance), Romans 10:9-10 (confess), Romans 6:4-6 (baptism represents dying to the world) and remaining faithful (Rev 2:10).
The bible says all have sinned (Romans 3:23) the wages of sin is death (spiritual death and more) Romans 6:23. Christ demonstrated His love for mankind by dying for them to have Salvation (Romans 5:8)
So while u are strongly anti bible, u know nothing about the things u should know.
U show yourself to be cherry picking just to argue about what u don’t like. And when someone quotes things u should know.. u turn peoples attention to what u think and against the bible.
You should take Jesus warning very seriously and hter is what Jesus said:
“Matthew 18:6
But if anyone causes one of these little ones who believe in me to sin, it would be better for him to have a large millstone hung around his neck and to be drowned in the depths of the sea.”
If Jesus isn’t the attention that u point people to.. and u turn them to believing all they have to be is good, and nice.. then u are not turning them to Jesus, but away from Him.. Jesus died for the sins of the world, that is what the bible says…
He also want to know whether I would die for Christ.
As for whether I would die for Jesus, I honestly don’t know, and I hope that God will not put me to the test. However, I would die for peace, for that is what I truly believe in. The type of discrimination which you practise, Ego-eimi, can only lead to war. It already has led to war; the Crusades are a very good example. The Christians believed themselves to be better than the Muslims, and more deserving of the Holy Land, and vice versa.
My reply: I’m glad you are honest about if you would or wouldn’t. But it’s sad that you would die for peace and not the one u are suppose to love the most.
And it’s kinda oxymoronic statement to say i’m discriminating when u are discriminating against me.
I hope u know u are operating by a doublestandard. If my idea is wrong.. yours is right.. isn’t that what I’m saying to the world.. that my idea is right and the worlds ideas is wrong?
U are doing the same thing u are accusing me of. U are saying peace should be preached.. and that is correct while me preaching Jesus as the way to Heaven is wrong.
And what a Bible Believing Christian believes isn’t causing wars as u claim. U point to what the Roman Catholic Church did in the Crusades… and that is a blanket situation u are trying to apply that all wars started, that is at least the appearance u give to me.
Wars start for a number of reasons… and they are not about religion. U have atheistic regimes that have warred. Germanies Stalin, not a Christian was a warring man. HItler contrary to popular belief wasn’t a Christian was a warring man. Hitler hated Jews, yet people think he was a Christian LOL.. walking out of a church building or being seen with the pope doesn’t make a person a Christian. Actions speak louder than words..
And Jesus said it’s what comes out of the heart that makes a man unclean. Hitlers heart was anti-Christian and there are plenty of quotes of things he said that proves it.. not to mention again his actions.
So your are presenting a strawman. My comment about Jesus being the only way to heaven hasn’t started a war. America isn’t at war with Russian, or Europe over Jesus’ statement of He being the only way to Heaven. That clearly is a strawman to say or equate my beliefs or Christianity starts wars or religion starts wars.. when wars actually start for many reasons…
And basing it on just the Crusades is definetly a strawman.
You believe in the Resurrectino.. but u didn’t say weather it was symbolic or not.
In case people don’t know.. the Resurrection is that Jesus really died.. was dead, lifeless, then rose again from the dead.
Science says that can’t happen. So in one breath u are saying that this can literally happen which contradicts science..
And the only way u can get around that is to say it’s symbolic.
And funny if u say this is literal and really happened.. but that Genesis isn’t literal but symbolic because it’s so crazy to think the world was created in 7 literal days… which is harder to believe?
A dead man acutally coming back to life, or the world being created in 7 literal days?
Wow, this is getting interesting… because u have to deny the Resurrection as real, because it contradicts science which says it can’t happen, just like science says that creation didn’t happen but was all naturalistic..
Hum.. this is getting good!
You said: I’d rather not get into an argument about Al-Qaeda, for while I don’t agree with Osama bin Laden, I pity him and I can see where he’s coming from.
My reply: Yeah.. i would like to see what u think or where he is coming from. Calling me a fanatic… and my views are dangerous.. right.. i’m not hating Muslims.. but Laden hates Americans and that the Infidels should be murder according to Islam.
You also said:Have you seen Atheists going around handing out flyers and magazines, trying to convert people? I don’t think so. I’ve seen lots of Christians do it though. This sort of evangelization is called ramming beliefs down people’s throats.
Um excuse me.. just b/c someone doesn’t hand out magazines or flyers doesn’t mean they are not forcing their views down someones throat. You are sadly naive if u think or equate the non-passing out of propoganda means something isn’t being forced.
My kids are forced to accept homosexuaility as ok, that only one theory is taught in schools how life came to be. Evolutionist love to say abiogenesis has nothing to do with evolution but then if u read a school text book it mentions how life got started in a warm little pool.. Darwins Idea.. but no other ideas allowed.. give me a break.. Athiest to promote what they believe and censorship any other alternative views. So u can be naive all you want to.
You said:
As for Jesus saying that “He is the only way”, I believe that he meant His teachings are the only way to Heaven. That’s fine, because Mohammed preached the same things as Jesus did; peace, unity, justice and love. Those are the things which lead people to God, and that makes Mohammed a prophet.
My reply:
Let me make sure “mohammed preached the same things as Jesus did”
that’s a lie. Here is what the Quran says.. which is what was suppose to be given to Mohammad by the angel he saw in a cave.
The Quran teaches:Jesus is not God, (5:17, 75), Jesus was not Crucified, (4:157)., The Holy Spirit is the angel Gabriel (2:97; 16:102)., Jesus was not the Son of God ( 9:30)
Jesus said He was the Son of God, Jesus didn’t teach that the Holy Spirit is the angel Gabriel, Jesus said He would be Crucified. So who are you kidding here.
You said u studied Islam if i’m not mistaken, and I’ll review what u said in Youtube, b/c I believe u either said it there, or here.
And if u are trying to say that peace, love and justice was preached.. LOL.. Mohammad didn’t preach love and justice like u want to masses to believe.. but to kill the infidel, and even in their own faith in their own country that if they choose to not be a Muslim, they are killed and u can find that in Islamic teaching. They are not allowed to walk away from Islam without the treat of death… How is that for peace and justice.. LOL
You said:
Mohammed did lead his people to God. They call their god Allah, which means ‘The One God’, and they recognize that Allah is also the God of the Christians and of the Jews. Which in turn means that they believe in the same God as we do. Looking down on Muslims because you believe they worship the wrong way is discrimination, and that leads to war. That is not what a Christian is supposed to do
My reply:
LOL.. it’s not discrimination to say we worship the right God and they do not. ARe you going to say that if someone washes their car with blue soap and I was my with red soap that one is discriminating against the other if they say it’s wrong to wash your car with blue soap? Please.. it’s not discrimination.. discrimination my grandparents experience that. To not serve someone in a resturant because of the color of their skin, that is discriniation.. not weather the worshipping of one God to another.
And they do not have the same God.. God isn’t the author of counfusion. The Quran like I stated prior says that Jesus isn’t the Son of God. The bible says Jesus is and was called the Son of God. So u really don’t know what u are talking about.
And Christians are suppose to tell the World about Jesus.. in fact it’s commanded to go out and teach the Gospel, and that was just applying to the Apostles. And if someone didn’t welcome the message like Jesus said.. they were to and I quote “shake the dust off of your feet” which was a sign of judgement and move on.. so don’t tell me what Christians are suppose to do when u seem to not even have a clue what the bible says on matters of faith.. just the things u don’t like, or have a problem with.
You said:
Also, have you realized that not all Christians have the same doctrines and beliefs?
You know what, I think you like being persecuted because it makes you feel holy. You feel like you’re a warrior for your faith. No one is persecuting the Christian way of life. The atheists only want you to keep your beliefs to yourselves.
My reply:
Of course there are different Christians that have different beliefs on non-essentials.. but there is essentials that make a person a Christian and denial of that makes someone a non-Christian.
I like being persecuted.. ok! Right! Yeah.. u know my heart, ok.. next.
No one is persecuting the Chrsitian way of life.. really.. this country I live in was founded on Christian priciples, and bibles were read in schools and u were allowed to pray.. it’s not like that now.. in fact u can’t do any of those things if u tried it, u can go to jail.
And Christains are persecuted in real life.. i have a friend in China/North Korea that has went to prison for sharing the Gospel.. Christains are dying in Islamic Countries for denoucing Islam and becoming Christians. Ever read a book called “foxes book of the Martyers”? LOL.. don’t say things u are not aware of happening to Christians, real Christians dying for their faith. or being imprisoned also.
The atheist want us to keep our beliefs to ourselves. violating the mandate Jesus said to go.. if the Gospel isn’t shared then who do we listen to? Atheist, or Jesus.. and LOL.. they preach what they believe in Christian Chat rooms.. so u tell them to knock it off.. LOL
You said:
I’m not saying that the theologians don’t know what they’re talking about. They know what they’re talking about. I just don’t agree with them. From my readings, I’ve made my own decisions about certain things in life and I’ve formulated my own opinions.
My reply:
Yeah.. that has been established u form your own opnions.. when it comes to the bible..
You said:
As for genetic mutations, it’s been observed. Look at Downs Syndrome, for example. People have been able to create new organisms through changing the DNA structure and artificially inserting gene sequences into other gene sequences. Therefore, evolution is not a faith, but a scientific theory. A theory is an idea which is reasonable, but still has mistakes.
My reply:
Yeah I agree mutations have been observed. But we have never seen a mutation cause a fruit fly become a non-fruit fly.
You have never seen a microorganism (single cell) change to a muti cell organism. The orgins of the first single cell organism like Prokaryotes are organisms that lack a cell nucleus become an organism that gained a nucleus then from there continue to advance to what we see today.. u have never seen that. The GTE wants us to believe that a single cell organism, or the simpliest life form over millions of years changed, and changed and changed to all the muti very advanced organisms up to us, just give it time.
Look at the evolutionary tree.. it starts with a single cell organism.. then we are taught that we have all the varity of life we see today.. and the mechnism is suppost to be whatever u want like mutations,natural selection.. give me a break, when they have never, ever seen a single cell orgainism change to a muti-cell organism and continued to us.
Mathematically, the first single celled organism is impossible to form in the alloted time frame of 15 billion years.. there is on 10 to like the 80 power or 10 with 80 zeros behind it in seconds of our exstience.. just for the first single cell organism to come together and evolved to get the right combination would take longer then how long the earth is claimed to have been here.
And yeah.. i agree.. a theory does have mistakes.. but also theories are suppose to be obsevable.. telling me that genetics shows relationship between organisms doesn’t mean a single cell organism was and evolved in an upward direction until u got to the most advance creatures like us.. u can’t falsify it. It was never observed… just like bats were never observed where which they came.
And I find it funny.. u tell me to think for myself.. but u are repeating what u learned from perhaps being taught it in school like I was taught it in school.. Just like that broken record u said, it sounds like the same thing I can read in nature magaizine.. if u really didn’t read this stuff, u couldn’t explain it.. u wouldn’t even bother.
You said:
Scientists have observed that light is used by different organisms for communication. One can incorporate prove facts into their arguments to back it up. Quoting opinions, however, just means you are too lazy. By the way, that was not a quote. It’s not a fault to be able to write better than you. If you’d read enough scientific stuff, you would realize that sentence is not a very good sentence. No one in their right mind would publish something written like that.
My reply:
You are a hypocrit officially. You write better than me… ok.. u criticize my spelling.. but I found that u mispelled a word while reveiwing things said in Youtube. Like I told you b/4 if you make one mistake u have no right to criticize someone for making the same one.. u think that u are not making them, and I found that u did. If u would have been humble and said, that u make mistakes to, but u try to use spell check, I would have been more receptive.. but when I found what I already knew to be true, u make mistakes, and are a hypocrit accusing someone else of doing something u are guilty of.
Now getting to quoting.. and that I’m too lazy.. LOL.. isn’t that a oxymoronic statment yet again. to find the quote u have to research it. And quotes have value.
If someone was quoted saying that if they had a chance to poison you and several people heard it and told you, what are u going to say dont’ pay attention to quotes that people make? What if the quote is true? Quotes have value, and I’ll continue to quote what scientist say weather they are evolutionist admitting a problem, or creationist with the same ph’d’s saying why it can’t happen.. and i don’t care if u call me lazy.. it’s weather the quote is true or not.. that’s what counts.
And u published on youtube.. a mispelled word.. so what.. i don’t care, I’m just going to make the point, u have shown yourself to be a hypocrit when it comes to thinking u are a better speller.. yes, most of the time, but u are still not mistake free, and need to carry yourself like that. After all, Christians are suppose to be humble people.
You said along with your quote:
As I’ve said, evolution is a theory, which means it still has room for presumptions and guesses. However, it makes a lot more sense than ‘The world was created in seven days and you’d better believe it or else you’re going to burn in hell.’
Here’s a quote from ArianneG which explains evolution:
“Look at the fruit fly experiments, and things like Down’s syndrome and Angelman’s syndrome! Evolution happens all around us; our genes are changing from generation to generation. Jut because said mutations are ’silent’ (non-expressed mutations) doesn’t mean that they aren’t there, or that they can’t produce great effects within a single generation. Whenver genetic content changes, whether radically or minor fashion, evolution and change is ongoing.”
My reply: Using quotes are ya.. so it’s ok when it’s necessary.. OK!
Yeah, it has room for alot of guessing which alot of it is guessing.. especially when it comes to things in the past which have never been observed, yeah I like when I read “scientist think” yeah, they do guess.
It makes sense that the world was Created in Seven Days when it’s a fact Supernaturalism happens. That at least was observed by peole who knew Jesus and people that hated Jesus. If supernaturalism exist, then I can’t see why God can’t do the impossible. Like Scripture says.. God uses the foolish things of the world to shame the wise. People will always think the idea of God is stupid, and that Supernaturalism doesn’t happen. Creationist that are mostly Christian don’t deny Supernaturalism, that is the only way things can happen that violates scientific law.. which only God can do.. God i have no problem believing He created a universe that looks mature and old quickly, because I don’t deny Supernaturalism like my counterparts do.
And the quote.. who is denying mutations can’t produce great effects.. fruit fly experiments showed that they can have extra wings, but they didn’t come with muscles.. but so what.. it doesn’t produce a change where that fruit fly becomes a non-fruit fly.
Like I told an evolutionist.. since they can malnipulate the genes as u said.. all they have to do is put that lost inforamtion for feathers from a feathered bird and splice it into the gene of a reptile.. that’s a small feature, make it happen.. no one is asking them to make a reptile change to a half bird/reptile.. no.. just give one small change to prove that this information was #1 lost, and that #2 it can happen.
But they can’t.. because it never happened.. it’s assumed to have happend.
Let me clarify.. the above.. no one is asking them to make a reptile transition into a bird in one generation.. after all it takes millions as they claim.. but to make a small change like that.. it can happen.. LOL.
But if it could, then what are they waiting for?
You said:
No, I do not believe in original sin. Just because an illegitimate child’s parents are guilty of adultery does not mean that the child also carries that sin. And I don’t even believe in Adam and Eve. I believe all people are born with clean records, and it is what they do that makes them wicked or good. So, yes, I think baptism is obsolete. I was never ‘conversted’ or rather, converted. I was born into the faith, and have been raised as a Christian.
I asked about sin b/4. Sin is a real thing, it’s disobedience to God. Adam sinned, it’s a fact that it’s taught that Sin came thru one man Adam.. but the Second Adam which is Jesus dealt with Sin and defeated it for us who are being Saved. Jesus talked about Adam and Eve when the Divorce issue came up.. that isn’t symbolic people… and I said b/4, if sin didn’t come thru real people but symbolic people then that means sin doesn’t really exist so why would we need Jesus? The Adamic Covenant was insituted with Adam… that isn’t made to symbolic people.
My reply:
Who said we are talking about parents producing a child out of aduthery is talking or equated with orginal sin? No one.. orginal sin is applied to Adam and Eve when specifically Adam sin.. all humans from that point on inherited the sin nature. and yeah, we know u don’t believe in a literal Adam and Eve.. but Jesus spoke about them in non symbolic language in the Greek.. so that’s your problem.
To address all people are born with a clean record.. well all people are born with the sin nature. it’s a fact. I have 3 daughters and I have seen them as babies be selfish which is a sin to think about me, and what I want.. that is anti-biblical. I didn’t teach my daughters when they were that age what selfishness was and that everything they played with belonged to them, even if it was another childs toy. They coveted another ones property which is what the 10 commandment is about… without me telling them, or teaching them.. i witneseed it as a parent my children (all of them) did the same thing when interacting with other children.
And born in the faith.. if u are saying u were born in a Christian family, or u were born a Catholic doesn’t make u a Chrsitian. I was raised by God fearing parents.. but that doesn’t automatically make me or made me a Christain. When a person confesses faith, babies don’t even know what confessions is. REad thru the book of Acts people accepted what they heard about Jesus then they experience Salvation they were given the Holy Spirit which was shown when they spoke in tongues as a sign to the Jews that God kept His promise to pour out His Spirit on all flesh..
Today, a person doesn’t necessary speak in tonuges at conversion, but they will experience the new birth, and I experience what was talked about.. as far as a new life.. and I”m sure if u knew what I was talking about, u wouldn’t be speaking the way u are about it like u are being born into the faith, itn’s converstion.. receving the Gospel about Jesus and recognizing u are a sinner which every believer recognizes that.. this is when they recieve what is promised.
You said:
As I don’t believe in original sin, arguing about the fact is moot. Yes, Jesus did come to save us from sin, however, because He showed us how to live correctly, and that is by loving each other as He has loved us. How many times do I have to repeat it? That is the only way to salvation and that is the only rule a Christian, or anyone else, needs to follow.
As I believe that Adam represents all human beings, that covenant was made to us all. It was not made to a symbolic person because we are not symbolic. Adam, however, is.
And is writing in proper English too much to ask? If you really took an entire hour to write this reply, then you would at least make the effort to write ‘because’ instead of ‘b/c’ and ‘before’ instead of ‘b/4′.
My reply:
Everytime u say that all a person has to be good will be everytime I will repeat myself. You are teaching a postion that is false and leads people away. There is no however that He showed us.. but Jesus also told people to repent.. and Jesus showed His followers and taught them how to live.. it was applied to non-believers.. they have to repent first.. once that happens then living the life God empowers one to live is when it’s valid.. And that is your teaching that how salvation works.. and this is why u don’t quote the bible because u are thinking for yourself.. no u are creating a false teaching that Jesus didn’t teach.. if u are going to say Jesus showed us.. also mention what Jesus preached.. repentance was part of His vocabulary, and so was Heaven and Hell and Judgement.
You said:As I believe that Adam represents all human beings, that covenant was made to us all. It was not made to a symbolic person because we are not symbolic. Adam, however, is.
My reply: This makes no sense. u can’t make a covenant to a person that doesn’t exist. Then turn around and apply it to us.. it can’t apply to us if Adam wasn’t a real person.. That makes again no sense.. agreements can’t be made with Peter Pan, he is a fictional character.. what u are saying is equavalent to making agreements with non-real people.. get a grip here.
You said:And is writing in proper English too much to ask? If you really took an entire hour to write this reply, then you would at least make the effort to write ‘because’ instead of ‘b/c’ and ‘before’ instead of ‘b/4′.
My reply:
LOL.. if people understand that b/4 means before.. then I will continue to write in a shorthanded way.. it’s easier to do that at times when I need to respond to a lot of material to save on time.. I spent 2 hrs almost with this reply.. so I will find ways to shorten up the time.. sorry..
U don’t see me going on and on about your spelling error.. so give it a rest and stop with the hypocrisy, u posted a mis-spelled word.. therefore u are not above me.. as I said b/4 or shall I say before.
Hm. Adam is a symbol for all of mankind.
And egoeimi? Shortened forms can be a pain. In your case they are a pain. A major one. And I’d suggest using Google toolbar and Firefox’s built-in spellcheck. Your repeated and constant misspellings are giving me a headache from the tediousness of sorting information, and parsing what you really meant.
I won’t bother to argue with you on faith, because I have none except in myself. Right now whether there is or is not a God ranks low on my list pf priorities. Since you and we (TR and I) speak different languages–one speaks of blind faith without reason, the others devoted to rational, scientific inquiry and debate…I really don’t see what is there left to understand. We are as ducks trying to understand geese.
[...] November 24, 2008 in Religion, The Great YouTube Debate | Tags: bible, Christianity, Islam, Religion, respect N/B: Ego-eimi’s replies to my last post can be seen in the comments of The Great YouTube Debate 8. [...]